Thoughts on Daredevil

[alphaflyer]

A warning:  these thoughts are likely not to be popular...

I was looking forward to this one, based on all the enthusiastic comments I'd read here and on tumblr, findthesea's stories and other stuff.  And yes, the acting is good, the cinematography is interesting, and the whole idea of a storyline built on the fallout from the Battle of New York and rooted in real-life things like municipal corruption and organized crime is right up my alley, in terms of plot.

But you know what? Three episodes in, and I'm ready to give up.  Here's why -- it boils down to concerns related to violence and ethics.

1. Excessive, unnecessary violence. So, yeah.  Gritty realism is what they're aiming for, I get that.  And yes, the "Murdoch boys" come from a culture of boxing and fighting and spitting out blood.  Not something I am wildly fond of, but I can go with it for the sake of a premise, and character back story.  But bashing someone's head in with a bowling ball (blood-spattered perp as a bonus), showing splintered bone sticking out of someone's arm, seeing someone impale his eyeball on a spike is something I expect from a Tarantino movie, not Marvel.  "Nice show," muttered my husband. "So ...that happened...." remarked one of the teens watching.  Consensus of all 7 of us on movie night was not to watch another episode that night (we watched a "Newsroom" instead.)

2. Realism is ... Balancing a legal practice with night-time vigilantism (sleep much?) is arguably a very tricky thing.  But taking a client only to find out what motivates him, and attcking him as soon as you get him off and basically torturing information out of him?  Can we spell d-i-s-b-a-r-m-e-n-t?  Seriously -- if you don't actually believe in such things as the rule of law and professional ethics/conduct, why bother pretending to be a lawyer?  Sorry, but that premise is so, so wrong, it's not funny.

3. Torture is a good idea (when done by the hero, for presumably Good And Cogent Reasons, and bearing in mind the Greater Good). No.  Just .... no.

You may perceive a slight contradiction here, with these comments coming from someone who writes about a pair of assassins who go around killing people on behalf of a somewhat shady Government organization.  And you wouldn't be wrong.  No one ever said we are creatures of consistency.  But I guess what got to me with Daredevil is the attempt to root the whole thing in "reality" -- at which point I bring some of my reality to it (the perverted approach to law) -- and the excess "darkness"/"grittiness" or whatever the fashionable term du jour is for what amounts to cinematic representation of brutal violence.

So yeah -- line drawn.  Not a fan.  Sorry, Marvel.

Comments

[scribblemyname]

I see consistency because government agencies have certain permissions, shady or not. Where they violate them, not okay. Thinking Bourne here. Where they stick to them, depends. In SHIELD, there's some of both okay and not okay and we're encouraged to notice the difference.

Vigilantism is a completely different thing, and it better be self-defense or war going on if you're talking lethal force because vigilantes don't have the permissions or the right if it isn't.

That's why I quit with Gotham, a show I otherwise liked. I couldn't take the gratuitous violence and gore.

[alphaflyer.livejournal.com]

Agree with you completely on the consistency. Actually, I agree with you on everything ... (Except I never watched Gotham.)

And yes, building a show on vigilantism is highly problematic for me for many reasons (why I never got into Arrow, either). The whole concept plays far too much into the *cough* American culture of violence that leaves people convinced that gun ownership is a god-given right, and that shooting first and ascertaining threat later constitutes an acceptable risk. (ducks)

[happilydancing.livejournal.com]

Oh darn it. I was hoping this would be good. I HATE unnecessary violence and gore. Hate hate hate. That's one reason I love the Marvel movies. They are "safe". Will be skipping this.

[alphaflyer.livejournal.com]

You may want to form your own opinion, because people's tolerance levels differ. It just exceeded mine...

[happilydancing.livejournal.com]

Hmm maybe I will. I think my husband has watched a couple of eps (funny how we can spy on each other via Netflix ;)) so I will ask his opinion.

But I am so ready for more Agent Carter. Now that is a quality series.

[angela-n-hunt.livejournal.com]

I actually had to stop watching because it was triggering my PTSD. I think it's very well done, but for my mental health? Can't watch.

And no, I don't know why I can gleefully watch Hannibal with nary a twinge and this gets my goat. I think because Hannibal is straight evil, literally the Devil, and we're supposed to root for Daredevil.

Oh, and as a comic book character I always thought he was a bit of jerk. We won't go into what happens to every damn woman in canon in that series.

So. Right there with you. I'm glad folks are enjoying it, but it's not for me.

[alphaflyer.livejournal.com]

It certainly is well done. Just not my cuppa, I guess. I'm sorry it triggered you.

And yes, it is odd how some things get to us and others don't. For me, the more 'realistic'/readily imaginable the violence, the worse it is. I mean, I can watch all of Alderaan or Vulcan get blown to bits and frown less than Obi Wan or Spock, but fists on faces? Can't.

[angela-n-hunt.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm not even sure what triggered me so much as just how unrelentingly dark it was getting and how no one's choices were good ones. It's why I've had to stop watching other shows too. I just don't accept that bleak dystopic views of the world like that.

Call me silly, but I like happy endings and where the good guys win.

[igrockspock.livejournal.com]

I can definitely see where you're coming from, even though my feelings are different. Later in the series (I'm up to episode 9), the moral ambiguity of the main character's life choices become a major plot theme. I've spent a lot of time pondering why someone who's dedicated to the rule of law by day would practice vigilantism and torture by night. To me, those contradictions make the character interesting and make me want to keep watching, but I can totally see why they could be a deal breaker for someone else.

Although I don't love seeing graphic violence, I actually prefer it to the less realistic kind we get in most superhero movies. I've always struggled with films that sanitized violence, to the point that I've made a whole unit about it in my American literature class. The fighting and explosions we see in, say, Iron Man is the kind of stuff that would result in shattered limbs and broken bodies and it bothers me that it feels entertaining. To me, Daredevil is about recognizing that violence has consequences. It should make us feel disgusted and uncomfortable, and it should make us ask hard questions about people who would employ it in their daily lives.

All of this is a way longer response than you were probably looking for, and I'm definitely not trying to convince you to change your mind about the show -- I get why you wouldn't want that level of violence in your entertainment, and the content is definitely disturbing at times.

[alphaflyer.livejournal.com]

Thanks for this -- exactly the kind of response I was hoping for, actually, because so many people seem to like it, I was wondering whether my rather visceral response is odd. I can see where you are coming from -- I guess it comes down to YMMV.

I've never been one for thinking that the violence in IM or other sci fi/superhero movies has no consequences. In fact, I respect Marvel for showing, more than most, that it does (impact on civilian populations, engagement of actual first responders, congressional hearings, clean-up ...).

When it comes to the more "realistic" violence, there are pictures of real life torture victims, and victims and survivors of war crimes and mass atrocities that I will never be able to unsee, that I've had to deal with in the context of some of my work. I guess I've been exposed to too much of that to want to see it in my entertainment space.

I'm glad to hear it becomes an issue in the series, although I doubt I will get that far.

[franztastisch]

Flyby comment to say, I agree with you on all points. :)

[franztastisch]

I am with igrockspock on this one, though I agree somewhat about the violence. Sometimes I was just like "eek!". Plus! and I don't know if you got this far, the humanising of the bad guy is horrible to watch, in the best possible way. Being reminded that the bad guys are still people with things they love and care for is a very uncomfortable thing to be reminded, and they did that wonderfully in this. Though to be fair, I can imagine you come across that sort of thing more than most in your work, so maybe you don't need that either. :)

Also, and I know you never got this far but still, college Matt and Foggy are THE BEST.

[alphaflyer.livejournal.com]

Maybe I should give it another chance.... but without the Husband and Child, because their lines were very clearly crossed.

[franztastisch]

Hey, only if you want to. We can't all like the same things after all. :)

[being-here.livejournal.com]

I love you so much right now.

Lawyers are the best *clings*

[alphaflyer.livejournal.com]

Hugs you right back ... And pass one on to Mr. Being_here, while we're at it! ;-)

[being-here.livejournal.com]

Always! I read the review to him and he laughed - which is quite a feat for a sunday evening!

[dieastra.livejournal.com]

Apologies for hopping over - fellow German here and all that.

Thank you for the warning. This is indeed the first "different" opinion I hear about it. So far there was only praise from all sides and how much better it is than Arrow (who, just in case you are interested, made a huge point about not killing anymore in second season, up to the point where it became ridiculous and you wished he would go back to the killing).

Blood flying around in slow motion was the reason why I couldn't really get into Spartacus. Then again I watched the recent American Horror Story season just because of Matt Bomer and did not expect to like it, but found it rather fascinating and intriguing.

[alphaflyer.livejournal.com]

Not a problem (hopping over) -- although it did point out to me that I forgot to f-lock that entry ... ;-) Most of my LJ is f-locked, except for the posts with new fics. But, eh. Glad you found this one of interest, and happy to accept a friend request if you'd like.

As for the German bit -- born there, yes, but no longer by passport. Full-blooded Canadian since 1985! ;-)

[dieastra.livejournal.com]

There were some more that were not locked, about your kid flying alone for the first timee, and winning first place for the yearbook contest, and getting an A for an essay about something in the British museum and your pictures from a London family trip, and you having no time at work to work only the lunch break. I just followed some random tags.

Full-blooded Canadian since 1985! ;-)

Yay! I have been to Vancouver twice for a Stargate convention with Richard Dean Anderson, it's a beautiful city. We saw a lot in and around it, stayed for two weeks each time. We also saw a lot of MacGyver and Stargate filming locations, I even made pictures with my action figures there. And I keep seeing places I have been to when watching Arrow now. Which is my guilty pleasure. Each week we complain how bad the show is but still we keep watching. I blame it all on John Barrowman, not sure what other people's excuse is ;)

I figured that as well but then was thrown when you talked about living in Europe / Netherlands in 2013 or so when a movie was earlier here than in the US? Now I feel like a stalker ;)

I just like to check out people with whom I have a conversation and get an idea about them.

I was born and raised and still live in Dresden, so former Eastern Germany. Travelling to London (Sherlock Holmes museum, whom I adored as a kid already) or US or having international friends was not even a question back then so I am quite glad how things turned out.

Not sure if friending really would make sense. Between your interests and mine, there is no match at all. I like the way you write though, with that certain touch of humor. Otherwise I wouldn't have kept reading but some people's entries are just more interesting/fascinating than others. And what a life story! I just friended someone who at the age of 11 emigrated from the USSR to the USA and despite our fandoms also not matching at all, we connected about mutual past experiences and she convinced me that we have enough to talk about without fandoms. And I AM always interested in the life of people all over the world. You learn things there you don't learn in newspapers. I know a lot about US politics just from reading my Tumblr.

So I'll leave it up to you - my LJ is an open book, have a look whether talks about action figures and crafts and miniatures and funny scenes with them, and also travel and convention pics and the occassional Dresden pictures (which is also a beautiful city) are enough to keep you interested. I wouldn't want to feel like spamming in my own journal, you know? I don't do private entries (mostly), I just want a place to share my art that comes in all ways.

If not, all is cool - see you in the fanficrants group instead!

[alphaflyer.livejournal.com]

I've found a number of interesting people to chat with through LJ (not so much tumblr) so I sent a friend request. You sound like my kind of person, even if you're not deep into Marvel! ;-) (I take Star Trek...)

[dieastra.livejournal.com]

Star Trek only TOS so far for me though, including the new movies - I only started watching it a year ago. In Dresden we were so deep in the valley that no TV waves from Western Germany could reach us (the so called "Tal der Ahnungslosen") so I did not grow up with it during my childhood in the Seventies.

Okay then, let's try it! I'm always up for a good chat. And those few of us that are left on LJ should stick together ;)

I just have become a bit more careful after someone threw a tantrum when I unfriended them and they found out half a year later. Claiming we had got along well when in truth she never commented on my entries and I never commented on hers - which would have been difficult, as most were in Spanish and those that were in English were about a computer game I don't know and don't play. And not cutted even so I had to scroll past long entries. When I friended her I had hoped to find out about life in Chile.

I don't think you need to send a request though, just add me? People can add others without them adding them back. But I just added you. I didn't get anything that says I need to accept you though?

[alphaflyer.livejournal.com]

Cool. I didn't get a notification, but you now show as a "mutual friend", so .... get ready for a lot of picspam! Love the action figure dioramas...

And "Tal der Ahnungslosen". Love! (although not so much what it stands for...)

[dieastra.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I didn't get a notification either. Weird.

Love the action figure dioramas...

Thanks! I hope the fun is also understandable for people not in the particular fandom. If you look in the upper right corner, there are the link lists all sorted by fandom, so you can pick out all Star Trek related ones for example. I am having a blast with them. This shows when I am in a fandom, as opposite to only watching a show.

And "Tal der Ahnungslosen". Love! (although not so much what it stands for...)

ARD was also called "Außer Raum Dresden" ;)
Luckly we did at least get RTL in August 1989. If we had depended on the local news, we may have not even noticed the world changing around us. Which is a frightening thought ;)